The Home Improvement Thread

[Anathollo]

For the water heater I'd recommend a navien tankless, they are pretty much maintenance free and cost nothing to run when's you aren't using water. My gas bills are basically $15 month in the summer, $12 of which is the monthly hookup free. If you get a standard water heater, get a Bradford white they have the best heaters on the market with with a 10 year warranty.

For a single person, tankless is the way to go IMO. Plus they are more reliable and you don't have a 40 gallon bomb to let loose if it does happen to leak.

Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope....Sorry they are not the way to go and they are definitely not more reliable.

 

[Oswego]

So you took advice from a salesmen, a guy whoever never worked in his life, and the equivalent of the dude equivalent to two guys garage of home improvement

I didn't conventional out back because I need the volume for the floor mass otherwise I think would be running every time the thermostat kicked on. Apples and oranges there

Love ya too

I am a commissioned salesman and so are a few of us on here. Thanks the kind words.

No offense but I trust the guys I spoke to vs you speaking for/from your dads experience.

 

[Anathollo]

I have a 40 and am going back to a 40. Prob should do a 50 for anyone else who is buying, but I'm tapped for cash so 40 it is. House used to have 4 people in it and they put in a 40 so I guess it should be OK with the HE shower heads I installed now. Only time I have ever run out of hot water is when I fill my Jacuzzi tub up and that's only once a year when I have hypothermia from removing the docks at my moms marina in the late November rains. No more marina so no more running out

Also my plans to get out sooner than later can always change and I may get stuck for longer so no need to heat 50 gallons so I can take a hot shower once a day at 4am or wash 5 min of dishes and my hands at 4pm

The 50 isn't much more and they are the same dimensions.

 

[Taco Loco]

Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope....Sorry they are not the way to go and they are definitely not more reliable.

He installs the gas versions, and they do work well, and they have lower operating costs per month because it doesn't need to keep 40-90 gallons heated constantly with a thermostat

 

[Taco Loco]

I have to inspect the electric hot water heater for our master bath, last couple weeks it seems I have to crank the hot water side more than normal.

 

[Anathollo]

He installs the gas versions, and they do work well, and they have lower operating costs per month because it doesn't need to keep 40-90 gallons heated constantly with a thermostat

Which you make up for in repair costs...

And we can debate this all day...I have a union plumber with 30 years experience who sits at the desk next to me at work all day.

 

[Taco Loco]

Which you make up for in repair costs...

And we can debate this all day...I have a union plumber with 30 years experience who sits at the desk next to me at work all day.

How much plumbing work gets done at his desk all day?

 

[PSU Taco85]

what about a non gas hot water heater, and tankless, recommend?

Ive never installed one of them, they would seem very expensive to run though.

Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope....Sorry they are not the way to go and they are definitely not more reliable.

Where's the proof? How many have you installed and what has gone wrong with them?

I am a commissioned salesman and so are a few of us on here. Thanks the kind words.

No offense but I trust the guys I spoke to vs you speaking for/from your dads experience.

You yourself had trashed the salesmen that came out to your house, no offense to any salesmen here.

What guys did you speak to in particular, just curious. My dads been doing this stuff for 50+ years so I think he knows a little more about it than the laury hearing companies

 

[PSU Taco85]

Which you make up for in repair costs...

And we can debate this all day...I have a union plumber with 30 years experience who sits at the desk next to me at work all day.

The navien last for 20+ years. I have a takagi and that's been going error free for the last 10 years. There is no maintenance other than to clean the inlet filter and maybe backflush the condenser if you have poor water quality

 

[Anathollo]

How much plumbing work gets done at his desk all day?

that's what I rib on him for as well but he's a helluva a plumber. He's out in a muddy ditch replacing about 30' of corroded cast iron pipe right now to one of my buildings. I left a broom and dustpan on his desk because he keeps tracking in mud to the office

 

[Oswego]

Ive never installed one of them, they would seem very expensive to run though.



Where's the proof? How many have you installed and what has gone wrong with them?



You yourself had trashed the salesmen that came out to your house, no offense to any salesmen here.

What guys did you speak to in particular, just curious. My dads been doing this stuff for 50+ years so I think he knows a little more about it than the laury hearing companies

I trashed his tact not his profession. Few guys here are owner operators who work on what they sell.

I'm 100% a desk jockey, but also worked with the tools, and I know more about the trade then most field techs - thus why I'm one of less than 10 people in the country re-writing the code recommendations for glass doors and sidelites installed in North America.

The navien last for 20+ years. I have a takagi and that's been going error free for the last 10 years. There is no maintenance other than to clean the inlet filter and maybe backflush the condenser if you have poor water quality

FYI - Navien won't stand behind what you are saying. I checked them out. Same exact length of parts warranty as my Bryant I'm getting (10 years).

that's what I rib on him for as well but he's a helluva a plumber. He's out in a muddy ditch replacing about 30' of corroded cast iron pipe right now to one of my buildings. I left a broom and dustpan on his desk because he keeps tracking in mud to the office

I need to do that next. Got a slow drain from crappy cast iron pipes that have fell apart underground. Need to calm Ant down then get him over with his Kabota

 

[Anathollo]

I trashed his tact not his profession. Few guys here are owner operators who work on what they sell.

I'm 100% a desk jockey, but also worked with the tools, and I know more about the trade then most field techs - thus why I'm one of less than 10 people in the country re-writing the code recommendations for glass doors and sidelites installed in North America.



FYI - Navien won't stand behind what you are saying. I checked them out. Same exact length of parts warranty as my Bryant I'm getting (10 years).



I need to do that next. Got a slow drain from crappy cast iron pipes that have fell apart underground. Need to calm Ant down then get him over with his Kabota

I wish Ant lived down here. I'd hire him on the spot!

 

[Anathollo]

Ive never installed one of them, they would seem very expensive to run though.



Where's the proof? How many have you installed and what has gone wrong with them?


What guys did you speak to in particular, just curious. My dads been doing this stuff for 50+ years so I think he knows a little more about it than the laury hearing companies

Ok, just talked to my plumber. These are the key points he to the half hour lecture he gave me but time for me to eat some crow

1. He doesn't have a lot of experience with gas tankless water heaters. He did say they lasted a long time from what he heard.
2. The original electric ones suffered from faulty components and also sucked down quite a bit of power. He was replacing his neighbors electric tankless heater and he said you could watch the meter spin when the water heater turned on (this was awhile ago before digital meters).
3. He recommends installing the biggest water heater you can and to get it from a plumbing supply store if you can and not from Lowe's. He recommends Rheem or A.O Smith brands for water heaters. He said you can get scratch and dent models for cheap, just ask the salesman if they have any in the back.
4. We install the small single sink electric water heaters here at work when we can't get hot water to that location and they don't last.
5. He recommends sticking with a tanked water heater.

I researched these years ago with my step-dad when we were replacing my mom's water heater as well as relocating it out of the laundry room to another part of the house. From what I remember, there were more website links to spare parts to fix the tankless water heaters than there were to sell them at the time. Also, I think we did some calculation and found that we needed more hot water than it could provide (3 adults in one house, clothes washer, etc...). So both of those things turned us off towards them.

I also helped my old boss rebuild the house he lives in now and we put in an electric tankless water heater which he ended up replacing with a regular water heater because it couldn't keep up with the demand (i.e. his wife was getting pissed that she could wash clothes and shower at the same time ).

Edit: Took out dishwasher since that isn't plumbed to a hot water line.

 

[PSU Taco85]

I trashed his tact not his profession. Few guys here are owner operators who work on what they sell.

I'm 100% a desk jockey, but also worked with the tools, and I know more about the trade then most field techs - thus why I'm one of less than 10 people in the country re-writing the code recommendations for glass doors and sidelites installed in North America.



FYI - Navien won't stand behind what you are saying. I checked them out. Same exact length of parts warranty as my Bryant I'm getting (10 years).



I need to do that next. Got a slow drain from crappy cast iron pipes that have fell apart underground. Need to calm Ant down then get him over with his Kabota

Ok ok I'll be done preaching. I charge per cubic foot of dirt removed so send me your files and pictures of pipe and we will work up an estimate.

 

[PSU Taco85]

Ok, just talked to my plumber. These are the key points he to the half hour lecture he gave me but time for me to eat some crow

1. He doesn't have a lot of experience with gas tankless water heaters. He did say they lasted a long time from what he heard.
2. The original electric ones suffered from faulty components and also sucked down quite a bit of power. He was replacing his neighbors electric tankless heater and he said you could watch the meter spin when the water heater turned on (this was awhile ago before digital meters).
3. He recommends installing the biggest water heater you can and to get it from a plumbing supply store if you can and not from Lowe's. He recommends Rheem or A.O Smith brands for water heaters. He said you can get scratch and dent models for cheap, just ask the salesman if they have any in the back.
4. We install the small single sink electric water heaters here at work when we can't get hot water to that location and they don't last.
5. He recommends sticking with a tanked water heater.

I researched these years ago with my step-dad when we were replacing my mom's water heater as well as relocating it out of the laundry room to another part of the house. From what I remember, there were more website links to spare parts to fix the tankless water heaters than there were to sell them at the time. Also, I think we did some calculation and found that we needed more hot water than it could provide (3 adults in one house, clothes washer, dishwasher, etc...). So both of those things turned us off towards them.

I also helped my old boss rebuild the house he lives in now and we put in an electric tankless water heater which he ended up replacing with a regular water heater because it couldn't keep up with the demand (i.e. his wife was getting pissed that she could wash clothes, dishes and shower at the same time ).

The single under sink ones are for high demand systems and yes they are known for high failure rates. Very rare are they even installed if a placed is plumbed properly to begin with, but for retrofits you might be stuck with them.

Yes you won't get a huge flow rate out of tankless be they are not For big families or high water usage. For a single person or married with no kids they are great. The nice thing about them is that they keep the output temp constant but will lower the flow if the heater can't handle the demand so although your flow rate might get reduced the temperature at the faucet will be the same.

The bad part with the scratch and dent is that you don't get a warranty with them. But yes if you get for a good price they are worth it.

 

[Anathollo]

The single under sink ones are for high demand systems and yes they are known for high failure rates. Very rare are they even installed if a placed is plumbed properly to begin with, but for retrofits you might be stuck with them.

Yes you won't get a huge flow rate out of tankless be they are not For big families or high water usage. For a single person or married with no kids they are great. The nice thing about them is that they keep the output temp constant but will lower the flow if the heater can't handle the demand so although your flow rate might get reduced the temperature at the faucet will be the same.

The bad part with the scratch and dent is that you don't get a warranty with them. But yes if you get for a good price they are worth it.

Yep, I learned a good bit about tankless water heaters today that I wasn't expecting too.

 

[PSU Taco85]

Yep, I learned a good bit about tankless water heaters today that I wasn't expecting too.

And to think, I'm both a plumber and electrician by trade,one of those desk jockey mostly

 

[achirdo]

I have a 40 and am going back to a 40. Prob should do a 50 for anyone else who is buying, but I'm tapped for cash so 40 it is. House used to have 4 people in it and they put in a 40 so I guess it should be OK with the HE shower heads I installed now. Only time I have ever run out of hot water is when I fill my Jacuzzi tub up and that's only once a year when I have hypothermia from removing the docks at my moms marina in the late November rains. No more marina so no more running out

Also my plans to get out sooner than later can always change and I may get stuck for longer so no need to heat 50 gallons so I can take a hot shower once a day at 4am or wash 5 min of dishes and my hands at 4pm

HE shower head? What kind of nonsense is that? First thing I do when I get a new shower head is run a drill through the plastic water restrictor

 

[PSU Taco85]

 

[achirdo]

View attachment 12036

Exactly. It's like one of those water massage tables in your bathroom! It's great